Posts by Disillusioned JW

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

At times in my life, tactful direct argumentation with clear evidence from books would have helped me discover the truth much sooner than I did, especially if it were evidence for evolution and of problems with the Bible. That is because at various times in my life as a teenage unbaptized publisher, as a baptized JW in high school and college, and even as a MS, I sometimes wondered if evolution was true and if the JW religion, and even parts of the Bible, were false - but no one had personally presented clear evidence to me during those times.

Eventually the doubts caused me to become inactive (including ceasing meeting attendance of the JW religion) and focusing my attention on critically examining the JW religion and studying the Bible independently (using multiple translations and using Hebrew-Greek Interlinears and 'Christendom's' Bible commentaries and Bible Dictionaries and online articles). Later I had discussions on an online site with a local ex-Christian who was an atheist trying to convert people to atheism. When he pointed out some clear conflicts with the geologic record (which I had not known of) versus the Genesis creation accounts and flood accounts, and after a local Seventh-day Adventist on the same online site said the creative days in Genesis must have been meant to be understood as literal solar days (and stating reasons for the view), I immediately stopped believing the supernatural claims of the Bible (which was after I had already found serious contradictions in the Bible and other problems in the Bible) - including belief in Jehovah/Yahweh God, Jesus Christ, Satan the Devil, etc. A year later I became an outright positive/strong atheist - not merely a non-theist (who wondered if a deistic god or a pantheistic conscious god might exist). I became such an atheist after reading a comment by Steven Hawking in the news, saying science can now explain how the Big Bang and the universe started (or at least could have started) - without recourse to belief in any kind of god - even a deistic god.

7

Does anybody have a print copy of the 15-Feb-2003 Watchtower?

by DanTheMan in

the reason i ask is because on the wt library (2005) the second of the two study articles from that mag has a blurb at the end that i found rather bizarre: .

[footnote].

published by jehovahs witnesses but now out of print.

Disillusioned JW

a

I have a revision to my prior post. Though older copies of the 1984 NWT say "International Bible Students Association" I notice that a copy which says "2006 Printing" (which made some changes to the original text of the 1984 edition) does not. I am no longer certain that the JW religion still uses an organization with the name of "International Bible Students Association", but I think it does. That association was, at one time at least, based in London, UK. See https://avoidjw.org/finances/ibsa/ for information about the International Bible Students Association.

https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2013/04/10/the-original-international-bible-students-association-still-alive-and-well/ gives a different (and shocking to me) view of the identity of the "International Bible Students Association than what I thought was the case.

27

Has the Kingdom Interlinear Translation been pulled off the shelves

by homme perdu in

i was searching for it at the hall's library and i didnt find a copy.

i also asked the literature department for a copy and they said they werent familiar with the bible.

what is going on?

Disillusioned JW

By the way, in the history stated in the "2004 Edition" of the The Emphatic Diaglott, I think it said that the WT had published the Diaglott for many years. I think it might even have said that the WT transferred the printing plates of the Diaglott to those who are now the publishers of the "2004 Edition", but I am not certain of that.

7

Does anybody have a print copy of the 15-Feb-2003 Watchtower?

by DanTheMan in

the reason i ask is because on the wt library (2005) the second of the two study articles from that mag has a blurb at the end that i found rather bizarre: .

[footnote].

published by jehovahs witnesses but now out of print.

Disillusioned JW

Though nearly all of the Bible Student organizations are separate from from the modern Jehovah's Witnesses religion, one of them is not separate. One is a legal entity that is a part of the Jehovah's Witnesses' operations and affiliated with both the Watch Tower and the Watchtower. It existed in some form in Br. Russell's time though it might have had a name change (see the Proclaimers book) - it is the International Bible Students Association (which no longer publishes Russell's nor Rutherford's books). Note that some publications of the WT (such as the 1984 NWT, 1985 edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, the 1989 revised Reasoning book, the 1980 Happiness book, and the 1985 Creator book [Life -- How did it get here?]) are copyrighted by BOTH the "Watch Tower" and the "International Bible Students Association" and/or JOINTLY published by the "Watchtower" and the "International Bible Students Association".

46

Thinking about disassociating yourself - STOP!...at least for a moment

by rory-ks in

(this recent forum post about a letter of disassociation encouraged me to post this new topic.

it's been sitting in my drafts folder for a little while, but now is as good a time as any.).

my suggestion would be, try not to go down the route of disassociation.

Disillusioned JW

What about someone who became a JW, but later stopped believing in it and who wants the following: 1) to create a website that exposes the JW religion or the Bible as false, or to write a book on such; 2) to be known by the general public as an author who officially quit the JW religion (maybe even as one who became an ex-Christian [even an anti-Christ of a sort], or even an atheist) rather than one who was expelled from the religion; 3) someone who wants to have written proof (possibly to the extent of having the DA letter notarized) that he/she/neuter quit the religion and disavows its false teachings, to strengthen his/her/neuter's credentials/reputation as a critic of the religion (or even of religion of general) and to deny false possible charges by the WT of immorality.

Having the letter, months or even years, before one starts a career as an ex-JW and ex-Christian author and public speaker of atheism (and as a potential expert or authority on such who might receive televised interviews), would give the person a degree of power over the WT and its governing body. The ex-JW could post the letter publicly on the internet and/or in his/her/neuter's book as documentation.

72

How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete in

i have a few jw relatives who are true believers.

by this i mean, they believe with all their heart that 1914 was the beginning of the last days, that this is the last generation, that we are in the very last of the last hour of this system of things, and that you should obey the governing body even if it does not make sense.

all of them are in their 60s and up into their 90s there is nothing you can say or show them to convince them or even cause a small doubt that the wt is not god organization.

Disillusioned JW

I wish there was a way to find out who are the JWs with doubts and who are the disfellowshiped JWs (ones considering reinstatement), so that we could contact them and share with them what we have learned.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

HowTheBibleWasCreated, I would like to know more about your book. Would you mind telling me what topics are in your book? Is your book aimed specifically at getting JWs to give up biblical beliefs or at Christians in general to give up such? Is the planned title of your book called "How The Bible Was Created" and is your book based largely upon your research of archaeology in regards to the Bible?

From time to time I have been writing a book aimed at convincing believers in supernaturalism, especially theologically conservative Bible believing Christians (especially ones who have some doubts), to become atheistic philosophical naturalists. I hope that my book will have a greater impact than the God Delusion book and than books by John W. Loftus (author of Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity), though I realize it is unlikely my book will become that successful.

I relate to you wishing someone many years ago had attempted to show you that the JW religion and other ideas were false. Shortly before I ended up becoming baptized, while I was a college bound student in a polytechnic high school, my physics and chemistry teachers (known Christians) - teachers I highly looked up to - made a joint statement within my science class saying they investigated the theory of evolution and determined it is false, I asked two teachers (ones I highly looked up to, one being my electronics teacher and the other might have been my biology teacher) if they thought evolution was true. I asked them to get a second opinion about evolution as a scientific theory, to see if they disagreed with my physics teacher and my chemistry teacher. They became very angry and said the law forbids them to discuss with students their views about evolution (I guess they were Christian creationists). As result of those experiences, coupled with numerous anti-evolution articles in the WT Society literature at around that time, I decided not to research the idea any further that evolution might be true. Those experiences were around the time I became baptized. Later on, from time to time I wondered if evolution is true. (I loved science and I knew most scientists were convinced that evolution is true, I saw some science shows on PBS which taught about evolution [but none of those shows I saw tried to prove evolution is true, they instead took it as a given that evolution is true], and I subscribed to a science magazine for three years and it had some articles supporting evolution which caused me to wonder if evolution is true.) While in high school, before getting baptized, I sometimes thought of looking for pro-atheism literature to see what it said, but heavy indoctrination by the WT literature made me too scared to do so (the WT warned that such literature is full of deception). It wasn't until I stopped believing in the JW version of Christianity that I started reading pro-atheism books and looking up the quotes the WT literature made of evolutionist scientists' science articles and books.

26

Being Reinstated

by azl0058 in

so my brother recently became df.

he has full intentions of being reinstated, but it is going to take at least a year.

if the end times occurs while he is df, will he still be allowed in the kingdom of god?.

Disillusioned JW

azl0058, regarding your df brother does he have any doubts at all about the WT/JW religion? If he does, and if he knows you don't believe in it (or maybe you do believe in it), you could tell him he can use his df state to read 'apostate literature' and other sources to see if maybe the religion is false, even to see if the Bible is false (such as in regarding to a worldwide flood). Since he is already disfellowshipped they can't do anything further to him (other than block him from being reinstated if they think he has turned apostate). Perhaps he would be willing to read books and articles by evolutionist scientists that present evidence for biological evolution. What do you think about that?

72

How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete in

i have a few jw relatives who are true believers.

by this i mean, they believe with all their heart that 1914 was the beginning of the last days, that this is the last generation, that we are in the very last of the last hour of this system of things, and that you should obey the governing body even if it does not make sense.

all of them are in their 60s and up into their 90s there is nothing you can say or show them to convince them or even cause a small doubt that the wt is not god organization.

Disillusioned JW

I can conceive of the the JW/WT religion greatly modifying their shunning doctrine, mainstreaming their teaching about blood, and dropping the doctrine about 1914. I can also conceive of them dropping the teaching that the last days began in a specified year, but I can't conceive of them ceasing to teach that human society is living in the last days. That is because at their core the JW's are essentially semi-fundamentalist premillennialist apocalyptic evangelizing Christians who believe the Bible basically means what it says - and portions of the NT Bible say that the last days had already begun by the first century CE. [Though, some parts of the NT can be interpreted as saying that the last days for the world in general (not specifically for Jerusalem or Judea) would begin sometime after the 1st century CE.]

If they drop the 1914 teaching I can also see them teaching that Christ has not become king yet (other than over the Christian congregation and over those they believe are in heaven), but even that would be very hard for them. It would be very radical for them to drop the teaching that Christ has already become the king/ruler of planet Earth.

It would be easier for me to conceive of them teaching that theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism) is consistent with the Bible's teachings, then it is for me to conceive of them ceasing to teach about the last days. Br. Russell in at least one of his old books said Jehovah might have used evolution to create nonhuman life (but not for human life since Genesis chapter two says Jehovah fashioned Adam from dirt).

13

NWT released in modern Hebrew

by Wonderment in

on february 21, 2020, the wt society made the announcement in their website of the release of the new world translation in modern hebrew (hebrew scriptures - "tanakh") in haifa, israel.

now, the complete nwt is available in modern hebrew.. some time ago, a poster here said that releasing (in theory, i.e.

) the hebrew bible in a modern version, such as the nwt, would be irrational.

Disillusioned JW

If the WT's Hebrew Bible has the divine name in it with the proper vowel points (the ones for Yahweh (instead of for Jehovah), the devout Jews reading it will be greatly offended, since they are instructed not to pronounce the name Yahweh.